In this episode, recorded live at the Civitas Networks for Health conference in DC, I sit down with Jennifer Pahlka, author of "Recoding America", to discuss how to improve the implementation and impact of big new policy initiatives. The book and episode are essential reading and listening for anyone trying to make government – or any ambitious project - work for people.

We discuss:   

• The dangers of treating the bureaucracy – not citizens – as the client

• Closing the gap between intellectuals (policymakers) and mechanicals (implementers)

• How policymakers can apply agile concepts

• Using data as a compass not a grade

Jen underscores  that a waterfall approach to policy implementation is a pledge not to learn:

“... When you see us trying to implement law and policy by always having information flow from the top to the bottom, and never letting it return back, that's the problem. There can be no software development involved in this at all. And we can still be in a waterfall. The reason waterfall is a metaphor is that water only flows one way.”